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How to thin my sides
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Author:  lactose [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  How to thin my sides
I have some indian rosewood sides that are around 4-5mm. I want to bring them down to around 2mm I suppose.
Lacking a thickness sander I was wondering about using a sanding bit in my drill press. It isn't long enough, I would only sand 1/2 of the side. I was wondering if I could just flip it over then do the other side.

Has anyone done this ? Any suggestions ? I could go at it with the plane but have a little fear of tearout.
Author:  jack [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
sharp cabinet scraper
Author:  lactose [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
Thanks. I enjoy using the scraper. Maybe I am not using the scraper correctly because it would take me a few weeks to take off 3-4 millimeters.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
Needs to be pretty sharp. I know it can be done with a hand plane with care, lots of people do it. You could also buy a drill press planer and finish with a scraper...
Author:  Michael.N. [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
Scraper is hopeless for this task. The correct tool is the Plane, just get it seriously sharp. use the scraper for the last 0.3 mm's or so.
Author:  MikeyV [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
^^ yup.
Author:  Haans [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
I used to use a 3" belt sander, but I had 25 years experience with them in cabinet shops...not for the faint hearted.
Author:  Tom West [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
jack wrote:
sharp cabinet scraper

Jack : Maybe some folks don't know what a cabinet scraper can do. It's an entirely different beast compared to a card scraper. When I first started I used a belt sander and a cabinet scraper to do sides and backs in this thickness range. Was to afraid to use a plane and damage wood that at that time was so precious due to lack of funds. One could work up quite a sweat but good results were the reward. I sure did appreciate when I was able to build a thickness sander.................I remember those days every time I use the sander.
Tom
Author:  Michael.N. [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
A cabinet scraper is the same thing as a card scraper. You may be thinking of the scraper plane? Either way I certainly wouldn't want to take a set of sides down from 4-5 mm's to 2 mm's armed with just a scraper.
Author:  Colin North [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
Trevor Gore uses a No 6 or 7 plane across the grain IIRC, both sides at the same time, to get the bulk of the excess thickness down.
He uses a high angle on the cambered blade (back beveled) a bit like a scrub plane.
I intend trying this myself for my next set of sides.
I have a drum sander, but could save me some sandpaper!
Author:  Trevor Gore [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
Colin North wrote:
Trevor Gore uses a No 6 or 7 plane across the grain IIRC, both sides at the same time, to get the bulk of the excess thickness down.

I use a #7 standard angle and plane across the grain. With the #7, the toe of the plane is long enough to hold down the second side before you start the stroke. The blade is sharpened to a shallow crescent shape, to avoid tearing the wood at the edge of the cut. The side edge on the exit side of the cut is beveled to avoid breaking out wood chips from that edge. When most of the bulk is removed I finish off in line with a high angle #6 (I modified a standard #6 so that the frog is tilted up to ~ 60 degrees. To plane ribbon-grained EIR you need at least 60 degrees, preferable more, to avoid tear-out). If you don't have a high angle plane, a card scraper works fine. Measure frequently so you don't end up with a lot of ripples in your sides.

If you prefer lighter equipment, just use a block plane, one side at a time, planing cross grain, steadying the wood against a couple of bench dogs. It goes quite quickly, but gives your planing arm a good work-out. Wax on the bottom of the plane reduces the pushing load a lot.
Author:  Tom West [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
Michael.N. wrote:
A cabinet scraper is the same thing as a card scraper. You may be thinking of the scraper plane? Either way I certainly wouldn't want to take a set of sides down from 4-5 mm's to 2 mm's armed with just a scraper.

No, not thinking about a scraper plane. You may call a cabinet scraper a card scraper but I have never heard it called that before. A cabinet scraper has a card scraper installed in it as the cutting blade.
Tom
Author:  Bri [ Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
In essence, a card scraper, cabinet scraper or a scraper plane are really the same thing. A turned burr is required to function correctly. The difference lie mostly in the cost, how the blade is controlled and ease of use. For me, a stanley 82 is the best. I can use a card for the cutting edge, apply whatever pressure is needed, control it easily and best of all you can probably find one for 10 or 15 bucks.
Sure, a lie nielsen 112 would look awesome on the bench but it wont do the job any better.
My nickels worth.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
Tom West wrote:
Michael.N. wrote:
A cabinet scraper is the same thing as a card scraper. You may be thinking of the scraper plane? Either way I certainly wouldn't want to take a set of sides down from 4-5 mm's to 2 mm's armed with just a scraper.

No, not thinking about a scraper plane. You may call a cabinet scraper a card scraper but I have never heard it called that before. A cabinet scraper has a card scraper installed in it as the cutting blade.
Tom


That's odd. I've just done a google on 'cabinet scraper' and all I return is a rectangular shaped piece of metal and many, many references to them being one and the same. Perhaps it's an atlantic divide thing. I think you are referring to this Stanley No.80:

Image

I experimented by putting a HSS Plane blade in it.
Here is what I use to planes Sides:

Image

Plane is used across the grain (or at 45 degrees). A holder that mounts in the vice, no clamps are needed to secure the Side. Saves having to continually clamp/unclamp and flip them around. It should have another stop on the near end (it does now!) so the whole Side is contained. The one next to it is for planing fretboards but one can plane straight along the grain with those due to the thickness of the wood, no chance of it buckling and breaking. I have a similar holder for Backs and soundboards but obviously much wider. If you start with an opened mouth plane, cambered blade (what I term a gentle scrub plane) and switch to a smoother when nearing final thickness the whole task of thicknessing soundboards, sides and backs is a lot faster. The holders help too. Needless to say that blades really do need to be seriously sharp. Get the chip breaker to within 0.2 mm of the cutting edge on the smoother and tearout shouldn't be much of a problem. Switch to a scraper if it is.
Author:  Tom West [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
Michael: Not sure of the Atlantic divide or perhaps an age divide, but I sure like your picture of a cabinet scraper with a plane blade installed. That's it for me.
Tom
Author:  Michael.N. [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
Just remember: you can't flex it with that screw. :o
Author:  John Arnold [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
To answer the original question, you can do it with a 3" wide drum sander in the drill press, making two passes to sand the full width of the sides. Been there done that.
My experience with using a hand plane on EIR is that you will get some tearout due to interlocked grain. Of course, you can reduce or eliminate it by planing across the grain or at a 45 degree angle, but I still prefer drum sanding or using a scraper plane.
Author:  murrmac [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
John Arnold wrote:
To answer the original question, you can do it with a 3" wide drum sander in the drill press, making two passes to sand the full width of the sides. Been there done that.
My experience with using a hand plane on EIR is that you will get some tearout due to interlocked grain. Of course, you can reduce or eliminate it by planing across the grain or at a 45 degree angle


Honing a steeper bevel on the iron helps as well ...
Author:  Haans [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
So does dampening the wood. Make sure the plane sole and blade are dry after.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
murrmac wrote:
John Arnold wrote:
To answer the original question, you can do it with a 3" wide drum sander in the drill press, making two passes to sand the full width of the sides. Been there done that.
My experience with using a hand plane on EIR is that you will get some tearout due to interlocked grain. Of course, you can reduce or eliminate it by planing across the grain or at a 45 degree angle


Honing a steeper bevel on the iron helps as well ...



Only on a bevel up blade. On the usual Bailey style plane it won't work but you can do a back bevel, although I'm not a great fan of that method. Maybe if you have a spare blade or two. Having said that I've yet to meet any EI rosewood that I couldn't tame with using a normal Stanley and shooting across the grain, same with highly figured Maple.
Author:  Christian Schmid [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
Planing with a toothed blade and finishing with a scraper and/or sander
Author:  ernie [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
1 more alternative for EIR a very sharp japanese smoothing plane coupled with a high quality blade and skewed on the pull stroke on a japanese planing bench..I just made the bench, and find it easier to pull over pushing, plus it leaves a very nice finish.John/s method works well too .Large thickness sander, and a couple of swipes with a LV scraper plane. or stanley type 80 cabinet scraper.
Author:  Peebs [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
I've roughed it down with a Wagner drill press planer, but I prefer to just drum sand it.

Al
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to thin my sides
A 10/20 performax drum sander can be had for ~$400. It's def entry level, but I've built harp guitars with these. Bite the bullet and say goodbye to these concerns.
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